Tag: Love

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Love Wins by Rob Bell, My Thoughts and Opinions

I love Rob Bell and all of my friends who agree with him and the views that he proposes in his new book Love Wins which releases today. However, I disagree with Rob Bell and I would have to disagree with my friends who agree with the views he proposes in his new book. However, despite my disagreement, Love should Win among us all, and we should not allow our disagreements, no matter how deep they are to divide our love for one another. The moment your beliefs steal your love your beliefs becomes your god.

(UPDATED) Note: I have started reading the book, but am not finished, so far everything in the post stands true. I HAVE NOT read Rob Bell’s new book. I am was solely basing my opinion on three things: 1) The reviews from supporters of Rob Bell’s book and the reviews from non-supporters of the book (overall, the reviews agree on what’s being said on the content, but the disagreement comes in the beliefs of the theology and subject matter). 2) Rob Bell’s own views expressed in his interviews. 3) The pre-video released by Rob Bell to promote the book. 4) The theology of Universalism (in general)

Here are some of my major disagreements and initial thoughts on the subject. I’ll start with the most top disagreements in case you stop reading 🙂

The Chasm

No one can disregard the parable by Jesus, because it’s Jesus talking. I hear people all the time wanting to disregard words by Paul and others because it wasn’t Jesus, however this Scripture is from Jesus, so it carries a lot of weight.

Luke 16:19-31 is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Why is this so important to Rob’s new book, Love Wins? Well, Rob said himself that he does not believe that Hell is locked from the outside, rather some people create Hell here on Earth while they are other people’s Hell. He also expressed views that painted Hell as a temporary place, a time-out, if you will. To Rob and his supporters it is a place that people choose to go until they are willing to view God for who he is and at that point, because Love Wins, they are free from their Hell. For Rob, Hell is not a permanent place.

Yet, the Bible and Jesus refute this view in Luke 16:19-31. In this parable the rich man goes to Hell and is in torment. He is suffering to the place where he requests that Abraham would send Lazarus to him to just give him a drop of water. Abraham refuses and says that Lazarus is with him being comforted while the Rich man was there in torment. He expresses even if they wanted to, they couldn’t because there is a great chasm separating them.  The rich man then requests for Abraham to send someone from the dead, like Moses, to WARN his family of the pending torment of Hell.

There are three main issues here that must be focused on:

  1. The rich man being in torment would have done anything and everything possible to get out of Hell being in the anguish and torment (flames) that he was in. He would have no problem at this point seeing God for who he really was and repenting to leave Hell.
  2. Abraham says that there is a great chasm separating the two places and neither groups can get to each other even if they wanted to. This is the most destructive truth to Rob’s viewpoint of an open door Hell.
  3. Notice the rich man did not ask Abraham to send him from Hell. He knew there was no escape and no way to leave, or he would have. He asked that Abraham would send someone from his side.

I don’t believe Rob leaves so many questions open ended because he is genuinely asking the question for his own benefit. He is asking the question to point people in the direction he believes, as well, he is painting a picture of those who disagree with him as being hateful towards him and attacking him. This is not true. I disagree with him but I am not attacking him. However, since we are asking questions, shouldn’t this one be asked and answered? What about the Chasm?

Hyper-Calvinist without the Calvinist

The Hyper-Calvinist that I know do not believe in evangelism. Why? Because in the end they believe that God’s elect are going to be chosen regardless and through His own means God is going to redeem those who he has predestined to be saved. Rob Bell’s view is not much different, he’s just promoting that EVERYONE is predestined because Love Wins and it would be unjust for God to allow anyone to go to Hell if he is love. There’s only one problem with this reverse Hyper-Calvinism and with Hyper-Calvinism while we are at it:

Romans 10:13-15 – Not only must a person have faith in Jesus alone for their salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), but they must call on the name of the Lord to be saved. Romans goes on to say that how can someone believe on a person they don’t know about and how can they know about someone they’ve never heard about. Beautiful are the feet of those who go and share the Good News of Jesus. This would be a moot point if in the end, someone can make a final decision that they were wrong this entire time and they need to believe on Jesus for their salvation. The need for the message of the Good News would be pointless and void because in the end, everyone (or for the Hyper-Calvinist, the elect) will be saved. Basically this view is saying we can be lazy and silent about Jesus because in the end Love Wins anyway.

Martyrs and Missionaries Must Be the Stupidest People on the Planet

If Love Wins as Rob Bell sees it and everyone ends up in Heaven anyway, then he just made Martyrs and Missionaries the stupidest people on the planet. Why would anyone risk their life or give up their life preaching a message that in the end doesn’t matter much for the people of other faiths who have good intentions, but just doesn’t happen to use the name Jesus when they refer to their god? I work for a church who supports a lot of missionaries. Some of these missionaries cannot have their names or locations printed in any material or posted on the internet because their lives are in such danger. What stupid people! Pack-up and come home, live life, have fun, enjoy every minute of it, and let God woo those people in the end.

How does this view of an empty or an open, non-permanent Hell, with an afterlife decision opportunity not diminish the gospel and the work of Christ here and now? How does this view not diminish the commission of Jesus himself to “go make disciples?” Do those of us who are able to lead people to Christ here and save God that extra work get some kind of prize in the end? Rob’s view, in my humble opinion, just keeps unraveling for me.

Hints of Mormonism

I guess if other religions despite their belief in the actual Jesus is acceptable in the end, then, it is also okay to grab a few ideas from the Mormon religion. From my understanding, Mormons believe that there are second chances after death as well. Of course there is some temple work that has to be done on the part of the persons loved one, but regardless, death is not the end, it is the beginning. People who hold a traditional view of the gospel message is being painted by Rob Bell as being closed minded and unwilling to accept new ideas about a progressive faith, he even gives a slight pity party to say how people hate him and are attacking him, which I have not seen. However, I believe what I believe because I have studied it out #1 for myself and it stands firm on Scripture. The question I have is this, “Where is there any hint of a second chance in the afterlife to choose Jesus or to see God for who he really is, anywhere in the Bible?” “Where did Jesus even hint at such a possibility?” Rob says he wants to have a conversation on these issues, so in my conversation, I would like these questions answered.

The Bottom Line

It wasn’t a day after the first blog popped up declaring that Rob Bell may be a Universalist, that those from Rob’s viewpoint started saying that people like myself only believe in Hell because it gives us permission to hate our enemies and that we have a twisted viewpoint to want there to be a full Hell, etc. I’ve never heard something  more outrageous in my life!!! I believe in a literal, hot, tormenting Hell, and I don’t believe there is a second chance after this life to choose Jesus. That’s why the reality of Hell must be preached here and that’s why the gospel must be preached now. I don’t want a full Hell, but that’s what I believe it will be if we become silent about Jesus and the gospel and if we start telling people to live life to its fullest now because in the end there is no way a loving God is going to let them go to Hell, so they can choose Him anytime they want. If I hated my enemy, this is the message I would preach. If I hated my enemy, why would I want to warn them about Hell? See how dumb that accusation is?

Love Wins because God loved a world full of people who took the perfect gift he gave us and we rebelled against him and through our sin we broke his ideal plan. Through this love of His, he sent the perfect sacrifice through his son, Jesus, so that all those who believe in him, would be redeemed. It would be disgraceful to call this act by God hate and it would diminish God’s power to say it’s not good enough and that we need an after-death grace period because the time on Earth He gave us was not long enough. Rob Bell wants to talk about Hell limiting the power & love of God, however, saying that a person cannot come to faith in the lifespan God gave them, would diminish God even more.

I may be totally wrong about Rob Bell’s views on this matter once I read the book, but based on his own answers in his interview and the reviews from those who both agree and disagree with him, I believe I am completely accurate. If I find I am wrong I will apologize and correct it as emphatically as I have dismissed it.

**Also, please note, I have not and am not attacking Rob Bell or those who agree with him, I have simply pointed out some of the areas where we disagree, Love Wins**

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My 17 Year Old Valentine

I asked Nicki to be my Valentine this morning. She said, “Yes!”

This time it didn’t cost me anything.

It was a different story 17 years ago (as of Saturday, February 12). That time, it cost me a box of chocolates to get her to finally say yes.

It was the day of our Valentine’s Banquet (February 12) for the church we attended. We were not going to the banquet with each other, but I had my eye on Nicki for quiet a while. I was in seventh grade and she was in sixth at the time. My friend was ‘going out with‘ her best friend. That’s not why I liked Nicki, but it made things better. I asked Nicki to ‘go out with me‘ once already and she told me no, she liked some other boy in her class. Although they were not boyfriend and girlfriend. In fact, I don’t even think he liked her; I think he was still picking his nose and playing in dirt. So, I was down but not out.

Keep reading, this is an inspirational story that will make you want to keep believing when your backs against a wall and there’s nowhere to turn. They’ll make a documentary about this one day!

Someone in my class gave me a small heart shaped box of chocolates for Valentine’s Day. It had a furry, cute little creature on it. I didn’t like chocolates and I didn’t have any money, but I had just been given all the ammunition I needed to win Nicki’s heart. I quickly penned a note, as to why Nicki should be my girlfriend and ditch the other guy. At the end of school that day I gave Nicki the box of chocolates and the note asking her to be my Valentine and my girlfriend. And when all hope was gone…She said “Yes!”

We were together for a little while, I’m not sure how many weeks or months, but at some point we broke up. I remember my friend broke up with her friend and so I broke up with her. It saved us a bunch of fighting over which friend was right. Remember: we were in 6th and 7th grade.

– – – 5 Years Later – – – I had just returned to the church & school where Nicki and I first met to finish up my Junior year in High School. When I first returned I actually had another girlfriend who was outside of the school. After several months, I broke up with the girl I was dating and was not really looking to date. I was content hanging out with my friends. At the start of my Senior year, Nicki and I shared a class or two with each other and would have small conversations here and there. She claims I told her I would bleed for creed (it was a promotion to give blood in exchange for Creed tickets) for her, however, I think one night while she was dreaming of me she dreamed that conversation.

A friend of mine heard that Nicki liked me and suggested I asked her to the infamous Valentines Banquet this church put on annually. I guess as cheesy as I thought it was, I have to be thankful for it as it has been pivotal in my relationship with Nicki. I asked her, in between her tears of joy she said, “Yes!,” and it was a date.

I got Chicken Pox. At 18. The Valentines Banquet was not happening. I was not going around my classmates looking like that. However, Nicki still wanted to go out with me (remember tears of joy) despite the fact that I looked like my face was about to fall off. So we went to Olive Garden. It was February 12. We had a good time, as much as I could get her to talk.

On the way home, I pulled over and reminded her that it was 5 years ago to the day that I begged asked her to be my girlfriend (and it cost me a box of chocolates) and that I would like for her to go out with me officially starting that night. Just call me a romantic, pre-planner. She said, “Yes!” and we’ve been together for 12 years (married for 10) since that night.

Hold on, I just realized, I guess this time it cost me a dinner at Olive Garden 🙂

So, when you feel that your dream guy or girl is out of reach, the moral of the story is, a box of chocolates with a cute furry creature, a dinner at Olive Garden and begging could land you a lifetime of bliss!

Happy Valentines Day to my beautiful valentine, Nicki, the one I was almost meant to be with!

Join the Conversation…Do you have any exciting Valentine Stories?

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Depends and Bifocals

Well. It’s almost here. At 9:35 p.m. tomorrow (and not a second earlier) I will turn the big 30! I guess I need to carve out some time Friday morning to go get sized for my new life of Depends. I probably need to go by Eye Glass World or somewhere like that to treat myself to a brand new pair of bifocals too. We’re going to Sconyers BBQ on Friday night for my birthday, so I really can’t delay getting these things done if I want to read the menu, and only God knows what will happen with my bladder and digestive system as of 9:35 p.m. tomorrow, so I definitely CANNOT delay with the Depends, those will be top priority. I would hate to have an embarrassing episode, but then again, I will be a rookie goldy oldie so I guess it’s expected.

I wonder if 30 among the elderly is like being a freshmen in high school. I fear being hazed by the older, older people. I guess I’ll have to keep a close eye on my dentures and walker so no one hides them. You know how our memory gets lost with everything else, I’ll never find them if they get a hold of them.

While my memory is still flickering slightly better than it will be at 9:35 p.m. tomorrow night. I must remind you, because I know everyone reading this is ringing their hands right now and are nervous that you have not bought be a birthday gift. So, you are thinking that you are going to have to go battle the Christmas traffic or the long lines to get me the very best gift in the world. But, do not be afraid! That seems to sound familiar. Although I know you were going to lavish me with wonderful gifts, I must decline. I am asking you to celebrate the 30 wonderful years God has blessed me with by blessing those in Africa who do not have clean water. Many children will not live to see this ripe old age of 30 because they don’t have usable water. Will you go give a gift of any size to this effort? Instead of going out and buying that pack of Depends for me, you may want to give the equivalent amount (approx. $13) towards my campaign, or if you are really feeling generous you can give $1 per year I’ve been alive, that will provide 1.5 people water for the next 20 years!  The direct link to the gift giving site is: http://mycharitywater.org/nickcarnes

P.S. Billy Wilson says he and Seree went to the Apple Store to buy me an iPad for my birthday when he pulled up my blog in the store and saw that I was  asking for water instead. So, they put the iPad back. Do me a favor and please go to Billy’s Facebok page, his Twitter, and/or his Email and help remind him and Seree to donate the equivalent amount of money for an iPad in a water donation to my campaign, since they were feeling so generous this Birthday season!

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Some Gave All

“Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Mark 10:21

A lady asked to talk to me in private after service today, that always leaves a pastor a 50-50 chance that we are about to receive bad news. Thankfully, it wasn’t bad news at all. She informed me that she wrote New Passion into her will and that she was leaving EVERYTHING to the church…of course when she dies…which we hope is a long time from now 🙂

I know, I know, this happens all the time to churches all over the place, but its never happened at New Passion, so I am celebrating what God is doing with our church (We’ve had people give us property and generous financial gifts, but not everything they own). Why is she giving everything to the church? She mentioned last week’s message, Setting Limits, where we talked about some issues that she said she has never, ever heard a pastor or a church talk about. Because she’s bought into our vision to lead people to a passionate relationship with Jesus. When we say people, we mean all people, and that’s what our Make War series has been all about. What’s the church’s role in issues like poverty, sex trafficking, human slavery, dirty water, illiteracy, malnutrition and other issues affecting people all around the world. She said she’s never been a part of a church that cares about people like New Passion does…so…way to go New Passion, keep loving people! It’s awesome to be a part of a church where people are willing to give what they have so the gospel of Jesus can be advanced!

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An Open Letter to Dr. Terry Jones

Dear Pastor Dr. Terry Jones,

I write this letter with little hope that #1 you would read it and #2 that it would make a difference, but I feel something should be said, whether the advice is heeded or not, that sir, is your choice.

As a fellow Christian pastor, I urge you to stop your blatant disregard of the Christian faith. Your continuation of your planned burning of the Koran, not only makes you a disgraceful American it disgraces the core teachings of the faith you claim to follow and represent.

I do not make my case based on personal feelings. I base it through Scripture which is strong enough to stand alone:

I make my case through…

Jesus

  1. Where in Scripture did Jesus ever destroy (in any way) the holy books or the temples of worship for any other faith or religion?
  2. Matthew 5:9-12 Jesus said the “Peacemakers” will be called the Sons of God – You do not make peace by inciting violence with your actions of burning the Koran. It goes on to say,  “Rejoice and be glad” when persecuted for righteousness sake, not go seek revenge or go make a “statement” when you feel others have done you wrong.
  3. Matthew 5:38-42, Jesus tells us to “turn the other cheek” and to go out of our way to accommodate those who seek to harm us. I’m curious, how does your burning of the Koran fit with in these instructions?
  4. Matthew 5:43-48, Jesus tells us to love our enemies. He asks, what reward is there in only loving your brother? Even the Pagans do that. How is inciting our enemies loving them? How do you open the door for the Good News of Jesus Christ, by angering them? I don’t know, maybe the word “enemy” from Jesus’ day meant something else…I’m sure it did.
  5. Luke 17:11-17, Jesus performs a good deed, a miracle. One of ten men came back to thank him, it was a Samaritan. I am sure you are aware that the Samaritans worshiped differently than the Jews, this Samaritan could have looked at Jesus with great disdain, but he didn’t, maybe it was because Jesus didn’t incite him to violence and hatred, he loved him, healed him, did good to him. I wonder, how are your actions on September 11, 2010 in burning the Koran, follow in Jesus’ example? Where did Jesus burn the Samaritan’s holy book? Where did he “take a stand?” Um, maybe I missed something, either way, Jesus’ method led the man to faith.

Paul

  1. Look at 2 Corinthians 11:23-33, now go study the rest of Scripture. For every “act” of violence, hatred, or wrong done against Paul, where did he one time respond with a “protest” or “standing up against his foes” or any other demonstration of what was “right” in his eyes? Where? He preached the Gospel. His life was for Christ not his own.
  2. Check out Acts 14:19-22, Paul was stoned and left for dead outside of the city. I bet Paul got back up and made a protest against them for burning his Bible and attacking his fellow believers, don’t you? No, he went back into the city, preached the Gospel and encouraged the believers, declaring that one must suffer many hardships as a believer. It sounds to me that Paul did not need to “act” out in order to “stand-up” for his beliefs. He just lived them out, whether it cost him his life or whether he got to keep his life.
  3. Furthermore, check out Acts 17:16-34, Paul goes to Athens and is encountered with a people who followed many gods and different religions. I bet we see here where he goes and destroys their temples and their idols and their holy books. Oh, man, once again, a peacemakers approach. He actually “preaches” against them and uses them to contrast the Truth and the Gospel.
  4. We are instructed in Colossians 4:5-6, to be careful with how we deal with non-believers, to be full of grace and to be seasoned with salt, so that we may have an answer for everyone. I wonder how your approach on September 11, 2010, falls within these instructions?
  5. In Acts 16:16-40, Paul and Silas are in prison. They have the opportunity to escape, but they know that in doing so it would cost the guards their life, so they stay and because of that the guards come to faith. Unlike you, they were unwilling for their faith to cause another person their life. You sir, make a mockery of the Christian faith when General Petraeus warns that our American soldiers will have the risk on their life increased by your actions and you ignore it! You may be willing to die for your faith, but you are not a peacemaker when you are causing & increasing problems for others on your behalf. If one attack happens because of your actions and any soldier loses their life, their blood will be on your hands, so I guess you might be very proud of them sacrificing their life for your right to be foolish.
  6. In Romans 12:14-21, Paul urges us to BLESS those who persecute us and to not pay back evil for evil. How does your plan fit within that instruction?

The honest truth sir, there is no Biblical foundation for which you can say your actions are in the name of Christianity. What you are doing is in the name of Dr. Terry Jones and the Dove World Outreach Center. Maybe its your way of getting a little fame and a little bit of news coverage, but you in no way are promoting the Savior Jesus or his teachings. You can twist Scripture all you want to make your point, people have done so for centuries, but you will be hard pressed to present grace and love through your actions. Our instructions are to go into all the world to make disciples (Matthew 28:19) as Christians we are called to represent Christ. You are not doing that and you are not paving the road for the Gospel to be preached, in fact, you are perverting the gospel, with a gospel of hate. Here’s a novel idea, arrange a massive prayer meeting not a Koran burning service, but then again, that may mean you think God is big enough to change the hearts of those you disagree with.

Sincerely,

Nick Carnes